Live 2015 NFL Draft Grades: Round 4



These Live 2015 NFL Draft Grades will be posted minutes after each pick in the 2015 NFL Draft. Follow @walterfootball for updates.

2015 NFL Draft Grades - Round: Picks 1-16 | Picks 17-32 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | Team Grades
  1. Tennessee Titans: Angelo Blackson, DE/DT, Auburn: B- Grade
    I figured Angelo Blackson would go in the fifth round, so while this is a bit early for him, the pick makes sense. Blackson is an athletic defensive lineman with size who should be able to provide instant quality depth up front and help on special teams.

    Follow @walterfootball for updates.

  2. New England Patriots: Trey Flowers, DE/OLB, Arkansas: A- Grade
    Bill Belichick reached on some picks in Day 2. This selection would've made much more sense then. Trey Flowers was seen as a third-round prospect, so he provides some value for New England. The Patriots already added a pass-rusher, but Flowers was probably too good to pass up.

  3. Carolina Panthers: Daryl Williams, OT, Oklahoma: B Grade
    The Panthers are going to kill themselves in terms of lack of depth by trading up so frequently. This move makes much more sense than the other one, however. Daryl Williams was getting third-round buzz from some teams, so this is a nice spot for him. Considering the offensive line talent in Carolina, Williams could start Week 1 this year.

  4. New York Jets: Bryce Petty, QB, Baylor: C Grade
    I'm not going to bash the Jets too much for trying to find a franchise quarterback at some point, but Bryce Petty isn't an NFL starting talent. Teams we spoke to were shocked that Petty was getting late first-round buzz; one franchise told us that they didn't even view him as draftable. Petty could develop into a backup, but that's about it.



  5. Jacksonville Jaguars: James Sample, S, Louisville: B+ Grade
    The talk all along was that James Sample would go ahead of fellow Louisville safety Gerrod Holliman. That came to fruition, and Jacksonville is getting a slight bargain, as Sample had a chance to be chosen in the third frame. The Jaguars had to add to their secondary to give them some sort of chance against Andrew Luck.

  6. Washington Redskins: Jamison Crowder, WR, Duke: B- Grade
    No surprise that the Redskins chose a receiver; Pierre Garcon didn't fit well into Jay Gruden's offense, so the front office had to address the position. This is slightly early for Jamison Crowder, but I'm not going to argue the pick too much.

  7. Chicago Bears: Jeremy Langford, RB, Michigan State: B+ Grade
    This is a very logical pick, as the Bears had to find a reliable player behind Matt Forte. Jeremy Langford is great on third downs, so Chicago won't lose much in that regard if Forte goes down. Langford could've gone in the third round without any complaints, so this is a solid choice.

  8. Atlanta Falcons: Justin Hardy, WR, East Carolina: A- Grade
    This is a bit surprising to me because Justin Hardy doesn't possess the sort of athleticism the Falcons look for in their draft prospects. I guess they considered him too good to pass up, as he easily could've gone in the third round. Hardy projects as a solid slot receiver, so he should be able to replace Harry Douglas.

  9. Tennessee Titans: Jalston Fowler, FB, Alabama: C+ Grade
    I'm not as crazy about this pick because taking a fullback in the fourth round seems a bit too premature. However, the Titans had an extra choice in the fourth frame, so why not? They were looking to upgrade the position, and Jalston Fowler was the consensus top fullback in this draft.

  10. Indianapolis Colts: Clayton Geathers, S, Central Florida: B Grade
    LaRon Landry is gone, so the Colts are weak at the safety position. It's not a surprise that they spent a mid-round choice on some help at that spot, and Clayton Geathers fits the range at the beginning of the fourth frame. Solid choice.

  11. Minnesota Vikings: T.J. Clemmings, OT, Pittsburgh: A Grade
    T.J. Clemmings was never viewed as a first-round prospect. Teams we spoke to had him in the second or third round, and that's before his injury came to light. However, there's no denying that Clemmings provides fantastic value in the fourth frame. He's a potential starting left tackle with plenty of upside. He might be able to take over for Matt Kalil if Kalil continues to struggle.

  12. New England Patriots: Tre' Jackson, G, Florida State: A- Grade
    An often-wrong NFL Draft analyst said Tre' Jackson would go undrafted because of his medical. So much for that. The Patriots showed interest in Jackson throughout the pre-draft process, so no surprise that they would take another Florida State lineman. Jackson can play multiple spots up front, so he has the versatility that Bill Belichick likes.



  13. Washington Redskins: Arie Kouandjio, G, Alabama: A- Grade
    And here's the other guard who was "expected" to go undrafted because of a bogus medical report. Arie Kouandjio did drop a bit - some teams viewed him as the third-best guard in the class - so I like this pick for the Redskins from a value perspective. Kouandjio also obviously fills a need.

  14. Detroit Lions: Gabe Wright, DT, Auburn: B+ Grade
    This is another quality pick by the Lions. Gabe Wright was a solid fourth-round prospect, so they're getting him at the right spot. He also fills a need; Detroit had to add multiple defensive tackles in the wake of losing Ndamukong Suh and Nick Fairley this offseason.

  15. Miami Dolphins: Jamil Douglas, G, Arizona State: B Grade
    The Dolphins spent a ton of energy talking up Dallas Thomas as a starting-caliber guard during the owners' meetings, but they would've been foolish not to address the position in the 2015 NFL Draft. Jamil Douglas makes sense as an early Day 3 selection, so this is a nice choice by Miami's front office.

  16. Cleveland Browns: Ibraheim Campbell, S, Northwestern: B+ Grade
    I had Ibraheim Campbell going at the end of the third round in my mock as an underrated safety prospect, so the Browns are getting some value again. Cleveland pretty much had nothing behind Tashaun Gipson and Donte Whitner, so this is a quality pick for depth. Campbell could eventually start down the road.



  17. Arizona Cardinals: Rodney Gunter, DE/DT, Delaware State: D Grade
    I didn't have Rodney Gunter listed in my rankings. NFL.com didn't even know who he was, listing him as a center. Gunter is a strong, big defensive lineman with some upside, but this is way too early for him. Arizona probably could've obtained him a couple of rounds later.

  18. San Francisco 49ers: Blake Bell, TE, Oklahoma: C+ Grade
    The 49ers were expected to find another tight end in the 2015 NFL Draft with Vernon Davis on his way out soon. I think San Francisco probably should've gone after a real tight end - and not a former quarterback - but Bell will be able to be functional on 2-point conversion attempts.

  19. Kansas City Chiefs: Ramik Wilson, ILB, Georgia: B Grade
    Ramik Wilson isn't a very good athlete, but he's been productive at Georgia, so Andy Reid is hoping Wilson will continue to be so in his new home. Wilson will have to contribute early, as Kansas City doesn't have much at the inside linebacker position.

  20. St. Louis Rams: Andrew Donnal, OT, Iowa: C+ Grade
    How many tackles does this team need? Seriously. I guess this isn't a bad pick like the other ones because Andrew Donnal actually fits the range. Donnal, unlike the other tackles, isn't as strong, but he has more upside.



  21. Cincinnati Bengals: Josh Shaw, CB/S, USC: A- Grade
    The Bengals have stayed away from troubled players for the most part in recent years, but they've proven that they can handle dealing with such individuals. Josh Shaw has his documented problems, but there's no denying he has the talent. In fact, if he were clean, the athletic Shaw would've been a second-round pick. Cincinnati had to find some corner help with Terence Newman gone, and Shaw could start sooner rather than later.

  22. Pittsburgh Steelers: Doran Grant, CB, Ohio State: B+ Grade
    Another surprising cornerback pick. Doran Grant neither has the size (5-10) nor the athleticism that the Steelers usually look for in their cornerbacks. However, I think this is a solid choice. Doran Grant provides some value, as he could have gone at the end of the third round.

  23. Baltimore Ravens: Za'Darius Smith, DE/OLB, Kentucky: B+ Grade
    The Ravens acquired this selection in the Haloti Ngata trade, but they used it on a player who could eventually replace another Pro Bowler - Terrell Suggs. Za'Darius Smith once again provides Ozzie Newsome with value; he could have easily gone in the third frame without any complaints.

  24. Cleveland Browns: Vince Mayle, WR, Washington State: C Grade
    Finally, a receiver! Unfortunately, Vince Mayle is a slow athlete, much like Cleveland's current wideouts. Mayle is a bit of a reach here, as he was seen as a fifth- or sixth-round prospect. At least he fills a need.



  25. Tampa Bay Buccaneers: Kwon Alexander, LB, LSU: A- Grade
    The Buccaneers were expected to address the linebacker position at some point, and they got themselves a good one in Kwon Alexander. The LSU product was expected by some to come off the board in the third round; in fact, one team was targeting him there before addressing the position earlier.

  26. Baltimore Ravens: Buck Allen, RB, USC: B+ Grade
    Here's another Baltimore selection that can't be argued. I had Buck Allen going at the beginning of the fourth round, so there's some value here. Allen is a solid pass protector, so he'll have a role in this offense. He also fills a need with Bernard Pierce gone.

  27. San Francisco 49ers: Mike Davis, RB, South Carolina: C Grade
    If Mike Davis was lazy and put on weight in college, what's going to happen now that he's cashing NFL paychecks? Davis has second-round talent, so if he gets his act together, he could be a solid player for the 49ers. However, there's a reason he dropped to the fourth frame.

  28. Dallas Cowboys: Damien Wilson, ILB, Minnesota: B Grade
    The Cowboys were expected to pick an inside linebacker before re-signing Rolando McClain. However, McClain was retained for only one year, so Dallas needs some insurance in 2016 and beyond. Damien Wilson is a quality player with good athleticism who fits the range of this pick.

  29. Oakland Raiders: Jon Feliciano, G, Miami: D Grade
    A very curious selection by the Raiders, Jon Feliciano wasn't seen as a draftable prospect by some teams. Others had him in the seventh round. If he happened to be a good prospect, perhaps he'd fill a need on the interior.

  30. Green Bay Packers: Jake Ryan, ILB, Michigan: B+ Grade
    Jake Ryan is the sort of athletic inside linebacker the Packers and their fans have been pining for. Expecting Ryan to start right away is unfair, but he could eventually take over inside, which would allow Clay Matthews to finally be able to move to the exterior.

  31. Seattle Seahawks: Terry Poole, OT, San Diego State: B Grade
    Surprise, surprise, the Seahawks drafted another very athletic player. The knock on Terry Poole is his short arms, but his athleticism might make up for it. Poole, who makes sense as a fourth-rounder, could start in a year or two.

  32. New England Patriots: Shaq Mason, G/C, Georgia Tech: B+ Grade
    It's hardly a surprise that the Patriots have now spent multiple picks on offensive linemen. With the interior in shambles, they need to shore up Tom Brady's pass protection as the future Hall of Famer nears 40. Shaq Mason, a Combine snub, can play both guard and center. Definitely not a shocker that Bill Belichick added another versatile blocker.

  33. San Francisco 49ers: DeAndre Smelter, WR, Georgia Tech: C- Grade
    The 49ers spent like five seconds making this selection. Perhaps they should've taken their time because this is not a good pick. DeAndre Smelter was not on some boards because of his torn ACL. He consequently couldn't work out. Considering that he's still learning how to play football - he used to be a baseball player - it may be difficult for Smelter to develop if he's not ready for OTAs.

  34. Denver Broncos: Max Garcia, C/G, Florida: B Grade
    The Broncos had to keep adding to their offensive line, and they're getting a solid fourth-round prospect at the end of that very frame. Max Garcia can play center and guard, so it'll help to have his versatility on hand.

  35. Seattle Seahawks: Mark Glowinski, G, West Virginia: B Grade
    I can pretty much copy-paste what I wrote for Seattle's previous pick, except that Mark Glowinski is a guard instead of a tackle. He's very athletic and fits this range. He also fills a need, so this is a solid choice.

  36. Cincinnati Bengals: Marcus Hardison, DE/DT, Arizona State: B Grade
    I thought Marcus Hardison's best spot was going to be in a 3-4 as a five-technique, but he makes sense for the Bengals, who had to find upgrades for the defensive tackle position. Hardison is a solid choice who fits this range.

  37. Baltimore Ravens: Tray Walker, CB, Texas Southern: C+ Grade
    Finally, a Baltimore pick I'm not in love with. Tray Walker doesn't bring value like the Ravens' other selections. However, he generated a ton of interest during the pre-draft process, so perhaps Baltimore was scared that Walker would come off the board soon despite being a sixth-round prospect. Oh, and he does fill a need.

  38. 2015 NFL Draft Grades - Round: Picks 1-16 | Picks 17-32 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | Team Grades
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2015 NFL Mock Draft (UPDATED 4/30): Round 1 /Picks 17-32 /Round 2 /Round 3 /Round 4 /Round 5 /Round 6 /Round 7
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2016 NFL Mock Draft (UPDATED 7/28): Round 1 /Picks 17-32 /Round 2
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Nick (Anonymous Poster)
1 month(s) 9 day(s) ago - hide

"Rob Havenstein was a late-round prospect. Jamon Brown was possible UDFA fodder."

I still come here on rainy days to laugh at that sentence. Thank you. And you're welcome for the clicks. 

2    1 Reply
ravensfan (Anonymous Poster)
1 month(s) 21 day(s) ago - hide
Boom or bust perriman? Lmao at practice he get drops less now. Torrey wasn't enough fast to get flacco's pass so now rookie speed? And ravens like those rookies, tell me how they get overrated? Explain good point SIMPLE
0    1 Reply
Robert K (Anonymous Poster)
1 month(s) 13 day(s) ago - hide
@ravensfan In English, please.
1    0 Reply
rot (Anonymous Poster)
3 month(s) 23 day(s) ago - hide

Again you overrated the Ravens draft. Perriman is a boom or bust who does not play to his speed. The 4.25 was also run at his Pro Day, where all players run faster than at the combine. In other years, Williams is the 5th or 6th best tight end. His status was elevated by the weak tight end class. IMHO, he was a 4th rounder. Davis' motor does not run all of the time and he did not have a good senior year. Allen was a 4th rounder and went about the spot he should have. Boyle ran a 5.04 at the combine, you have readers and contributors who are faster. Waller is slow in and out of breaks. Myers is a huge project.

Newsome has had many stellar drafts, but like all of them, has had his share of busts; Kyle Boller,; Travis Taylor; Mark Clayton; Sergio kindle; Terrence Cody; Jah Reid; Mark Elam; Arthur Brown; Dan Cody among others. So, let's not canonize him.

7    1 Reply
dinner (Anonymous Poster)
1 month(s) 23 day(s) ago - hide
@rot IMO, Smith + Davis > Perriman + Williams
0    0 Reply
Cheifs guy (Anonymous Poster)
1 month(s) 26 day(s) ago - hide

A couple comments, regarding the KC Chiefs pick and the grading, at #18.  

Firstly, Andy Reid is indeed the head coach, but he is not responsible for player personnel.  You must assume Andy must be the guy.  This makes you look ignorant about the Chiefs organization.  The person responsible is the GM John Dorsey.  Sure, Andy has input, but the analysis don't even mention John.  

Secondly, look at the other guys in the draft this year and even those in the NFL with problems.  With the talent Peters brings, I don't really see that this pick is that big of a risk at pick #18.  At least no bigger a risk than other players that you rank higher and were picked higher and have shown they have major off the field problems.  Time will tell and I think you may have to eat some humble pie on your not so insightful comments.  Else, I will.   


0    0 Reply
Cheifs guy (Anonymous Poster)
1 month(s) 26 day(s) ago - hide

A couple comments, regarding the KC Chiefs pick and the grading, at #18.  

Firstly, Andy Reid is indeed the head coach, but he is not responsible for player personnel.  You must assume Andy must be the guy.  This makes you look ignorant about the Chiefs organization.  The person responsible is the GM John Dorsey.  Sure, Andy has input, but the analysis don't even mention John.  

Secondly, look at the other guys in the draft this year and even those in the NFL with problems.  With the talent Peters brings, I don't really see that this pick is that big of a risk at pick #18.  At least no bigger a risk than other players that you rank higher and were picked higher and have shown they have major off the field problems.  Time will tell and I think you may have to eat some humble pie on your not so insightful comments.  Else, I will.   


0    0 Reply
Cheifs guy (Anonymous Poster)
1 month(s) 26 day(s) ago - hide

A couple comments, regarding the KC Chiefs pick and the grading, at #18.  

Firstly, Andy Reid is indeed the head coach, but he is not responsible for player personnel.  You must assume Andy must be the guy.  This makes you look ignorant about the Chiefs organization.  The person responsible is the GM John Dorsey.  Sure, Andy has input, but the analysis don't even mention John.  

Secondly, look at the other guys in the draft this year and even those in the NFL with problems.  With the talent Peters brings, I don't really see that this pick is that big of a risk at pick #18.  At least no bigger a risk than other players that you rank higher and were picked higher and have shown they have major off the field problems.  Time will tell and I think you may have to eat some humble pie on your not so insightful comments.  Else, I will.   


0    0 Reply
royale with cheese (Anonymous Poster)
3 month(s) 5 day(s) ago - hide

@Robert K 

I guess there were more irrational and desperate comments you wanted to throw at me.  8 to be exact.

1. Yet again your ego never ceases to amaze me.  I say that because it is how I truly feel, and it has nothing to do with what you said.  But go ahead, keep on thinking that. I don't care, your so full of yourself you won't allow yourself to think anything else anyway.

2. As for you never calling out Walt for some occasional Steeler bashing, you don't even believe that, and it's obvious that you're lying.  You can call pointing out your hypocrisies "reaching" if you want, it only points more towards your inability to argue.

3. I called you a terrible person based on all the evidence, that's all.  When you act like a terrible person, you're going to be called that.  Change your general attitude then maybe people will stop calling you that.  Pretty simple.

4. Nice contradiction.  First you say you didn't call Walt under qualified, then in the very next sentence you say that he is not qualified?  Tell me, if he is not qualified {based on your flawed logic and incredible reach} then how is he not under qualified?  

5. Just proving me right about the "terrible person" remark that so obviously touched a nerve with you, probably because its not the first time you've been defined as such.  Classless bashing with witless remarks are not the acts of a good person.  A lot of the comments here are largely subjective and to be so disrespectful to basically everyone just speaks to your character.

6. LOL irrelevant.  It totally tears apart your argument, so naturally you would arbitrarily label it as "irrelevant."  It doesn't negate what I said at all.  Just because Johnson was one of the first backs I looked up it doesn't mean I looked up others afterwards.  Besides, I never said I I only looked up Johnson and nobody else.  All I said was after I saw him play I knew he would be one of the better ones, then after looking up an ample amount of others my belief was solidified.  So congrats on misquoting and being wrong.  Again.

7. Actually my first reply was 7 days ago to your comment that was 9 days ago, so nice lie.  I apologize for the hiatus of my last comment, I'm sure you've been awaiting eagerly for my response due to the alarmingly large amount free time you have.  I just wish I could see the look on your dopey little face as you sit there in anticipation lol.  Keep thinking about me!

8. I wasn't hurt at all by that comment, but if it helps your ego to tell yourself that you have that big of an influence on people who don't respect you at all {i.e. me} then go ahead, whom am I to get in the way of that.  I was just tired of you bringing that up to distract yourself from the verbal beat down I'm giving you {and you still bring it up! Amazing.}, so I decided to change pseudonyms in the hopes that you would stay relevant in regards to the argument, but I was foolish to think you would do that. 

There.  Served again.  I can only hope that this ignorant display is just a facade and you're only being this flagrantly ignorant and wrong because you are too full of yourself or proud {for some reason} to admit when you've been beat.  Keep on swinging and missing {OH a common expression, have you ever said that before?  If you did then I must be plagiarizing lol.  Please learn what plagiarizing means before you use it in an argument to prevent further embarrassment}.  And btw I will keep laughing at you!  That's the first correct thing you've said this whole time!

0    1 Reply
Someone with a life (Anonymous Poster)
3 month(s) 4 day(s) ago - hide
@royale with cheese Get a life!
3    0 Reply
Robert K (Anonymous Poster)
2 month(s) 23 day(s) ago - hide

@royale with cheese Eww. Served again. I can't believe you're still at it with that humiliating gag. The returns have officially diminished to nothing, so this will be my last reply to you. It's obvious that you are simply not intelligent enough to debate on the simplest of subjects. You can't tell the difference between stating that someone is unqualified to make a specific statement and that someone is unqualified to do a job. Your problem, not mine. You don't know the meaning of the word "best." You can't see your own internal logical flaws when stating that you only need to see a player's film in isolation to say that he's one of the best playmakers available. You think plagiarism is simply the repeating of random words, rather than the wholesale theft of phrases (what a surprise, the "process server" doesn't have an education!).

Here's what it all comes down to: you were deeply hurt and embarrassed when I pointed out how absolutely stupid your "process server" gag was, refused two different apologies, and have gone off on several rants without a single original thought based on that initial hurt. I say this with complete sincerity: you are not a respectable person, you have not displayed a single shred of intellect, and you are a person of astonishing emotional fragility. Seek help. I'm done here.

And yes: I've dealt with enough trolls to understand how you've rigged the game. When someone replies, you claim victory because they're engaging with you. When they don't, you claim victory when the stop because clearly they must know they've lost. I know the drill. Do what you have to do. I wish you all the best with the limited capabilities and enormous fragilities you've been cursed with.

2    1 Reply
Rational J (Anonymous Poster)
2 month(s) 5 day(s) ago - hide
@Robert K  Girls aren't attracted to you, are they?
1    1 Reply
royale with cheese (Anonymous Poster)
2 month(s) 4 day(s) ago - hide

@Robert K 

Thank you again Robert K.  The fact that you don't think I'm a respectable person must mean I am a pretty good guy.  Man I must have really got under your skin for you to throw that many insults at me without refuting any of my points at all.  Man I must have really pissed you off!  Take this as a lesson to never get into an argument with someone who is smarter than you, you'll just end up embarrassing yourself.  

Thanks for the laughs Robert K!  Hope you've learned from this verbal beat down I've been more than happy to give you!

0    1 Reply
Vikes167 (Anonymous Poster)
3 month(s) 16 day(s) ago - hide
Did this guy just Clemmings could start at LT? it'd be a huge miracle, because he won't even be in competition/playing LT, rather he will be competing with David Yankey to play LG. Though I must say i am surprised, a lot of people aren't hating the Vikes class like they do every year. another thing, Don't doubt Bryce Petty, that was a brilliant pick by the Jets, he can develop into a solid starter
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Rational J (Anonymous Poster)
2 month(s) 5 day(s) ago - hide
@Vikes167   Actually, you couldn't possibly be more wrong- Bryce Petty is Brandon Weeden 2.0 and will stink.
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ChuckD (Anonymous Poster)
3 month(s) 7 day(s) ago - hide
You are such a Steeler homer! You contradict yourself consistently to give the Squelaers high draft grades, then give other teams like the Browns lower draft grades for VERY GOOD players! SMDH!! People who have been paid a lot more than you to evaluate NFL talent have graded the Browns Draft as the second best of the year, but you give them a C-.... That's comical; and totally kills your credibility! But Browns fans have known for years you have serious bias issues when it come to the AFC North in general; and specifically the Browns.
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Rational J (Anonymous Poster)
2 month(s) 5 day(s) ago - hide
@ChuckD   Yes, yes- who could possibly take issue with anything the vaunted Browns front office does?  Things have gone so swimmingly for you these last 15 years!  But I'm sure THIS draft class (like every one before it this time of year) is going to turn things around for the downtrodden Clevelanders.  I imagine Cleveland is a real-life version of that city in the movie "Idiocracy".   
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Bengals Fan (Anonymous Poster)
3 month(s) 26 day(s) ago - hide
I think you overlooked some points when grading the Bengals. The biggest points being the missing players from last year due to injury and free agency. Eiffert and Marvin Jones missed almost the whole year and Green missed a lot of time near the end so just getting them back is a major boost to the offence. Also Geno was recovering, he under performed but there is reason to hope a whole off season of strengthening will change that and they now have Johnson back where he played awesome a couple years ago. These points are most likely why the Bengals didn't feel the need to burn draft picks at these positions but rather build in positions they had the luxury to upgrade. I appreciate your analysis it just seems like this rating is a little lazy. 
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Bengals Fan (Anonymous Poster)
2 month(s) 28 day(s) ago - hide
@Bengals Fan Walt I would like to hear your opinion on this if you get the time.
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Rational J (Anonymous Poster)
2 month(s) 5 day(s) ago - hide
@Bengals Fan  Clearly Walt DGAF what you think and pining for his approval is incredibly sad.
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royale with cheese (Anonymous Poster)
3 month(s) 12 day(s) ago - hide

Also, perhaps u should choose to actually read my quotes that you chose.  In one quote I say some play makers, and the other quote i say many RB's.  Again, running backs and play makers are two totally different things, so yet another swing and a miss on your part.  Keep on reaching to make your "points" instead of admitting defeat. You don't take verbal beating very well do you? The least you could have done is look graceful in defeat, but you have failed at that as well.  Pity.

Any other irrational or desperate comments u want to throw at me?

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Robert K (Anonymous Poster)
3 month(s) 11 day(s) ago - hide

@royale with cheese 

Because of your refusal to address my points in a rational manner, I'll just do this response as a numbered list. You should reply in the same manner in order to actually reply to all of them.

1. Is the "keep it up" and "thanks for the laughs!" a bit now? You've repeatedly ripped off those lines from me and just keep posting them. You can’t just call them common phrases, as you are lifting phrases word for word from my posts. Are you really incapable of crafting your own material?

2. I've never bashed Walt for hating on the Steelers. He is, in fact, frequently too light on them. I detested both the Colson and Coates picks (D- and F in my book, respectively) and thought he was way too light on the Mike Mitchell signing last year (also an F as far as I'm concerned). Don't bother looking for me complaining about Walt hating. That material does not exist. You were saying something about reaching?

3. I apologized (twice) for getting personal. I've bashed your intelligence multiple times due to overwhelming evidence that you don't have much going on upstairs, and you decide to get viciously personal and call me a "terrible person" because of some message board disagreements? That's just sad.7.

4. I didn't call Walt underqualified. I said he wasn't qualified to say who the BEST player in the draft was if he hadn't scouted them all. First, you reject the dictionary meaning of a term ("best") because it doesn't support your argument; you follow that up by strawmanning another of my posts in order to claim a victory you haven't earned. It failed...miserably.

5. "then why do you feel the compelling urge to bash people who disagree with him and "like" his analysis?"

I don't suffer fools gladly, nor do I pretend that their absurd beliefs have any grounds in reality. Given how I've responded to your posts, you should know that by now.

5. "Keep on thinking about me to an unhealthy extent and bring me some more of those "theories about me!  I love it!"

Theories like "you're a terrible person?" You were saying something in your post about hypocrisy?

6. "In one quote I say some play makers, and the other quote i say many RB's.”

Irrelevant. your post about watching Johnson's film and being convinced *without any other evidence* that he was one of the best playmakers in the draft negates what you subsequently said. You're trying to cover your tracks, and it is failing.

7. "I'm sure I can go back and dig up all the times u praise Walt and think his analysis is great, but I obviously don't have as much free time as you."

Yes, you do. Your first reply to my last post was (as of this post) 27 hours ago. You checked in 5 hours later, was dismayed to see I hadn't replied, and so wrote yet another one. You have plenty of free time.

8. "Keep on thinking of me and writing all those long posts, I enjoy living rent free inside your head!"

You were clearly very hurt when I insulted your lame "process server" character and got really vicious when I tried to apologize, so who is living rent free inside whose head?

But please, do tell me more about my long posts while writing 3 in reply. Do continue to steal my insults, and by all means, continue to pretend that you weren't insanely inconsistent in your evaluation of Johnson. You can keep laughing. At this point, I'm just sincerely sorry for the people in your life if this is how you function there. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that this is just a strange internet troll act (you're welcome).

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Someone with a life (Anonymous Poster)
3 month(s) 4 day(s) ago - hide
@Robert K Get a life!
2    0 Reply
royale with cheese (Anonymous Poster)
3 month(s) 5 day(s) ago - hide
btw Robert K I accused you of being a troll, and now you do it to me!  OBVIOUSLY PLAGIARIZING!  I also said things like "assuming" and "keep on" before so you are OBVIOUSLY plagiarizing that too!  How dare you!
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process server (Anonymous Poster)
3 month(s) 22 day(s) ago - hide
Not to mention Walt said that they didn't get a play maker, and Duke Johnson is CLEARLY one.  Anyone who watched him play at Miami knows he's a play maker at RB who specializes at catching the ball and getting in the open field, ala Darren Sproles.  I was really hoping the Browns drafted him if he was still there in the 3rd round; Cleveland could use a Darren Sproles type of player on offense.
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Robert K (Anonymous Poster)
3 month(s) 22 day(s) ago - hide
@process server Lots of players look good in college. The competition is inferior. Limas Sweed dominated in college; nobody would mistake him for a playmaker. It's all projection. That you saw a playmaker in Johnson does not mean he will be one. This is, again, an obvious observation. In fact, I'll just go ahead and call it the best in human history given your distorted definition of the term.
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process server (Anonymous Poster)
3 month(s) 21 day(s) ago - hide

@Robert K 

nitpick nitpick nitpick, man you continue to reach and reach after you've been beat instead of just manning up and admitting it.  Again, thanks for the laughs your ignorance really is mind boggling and amusing.

You are once again confusing OPINION with FACT.  It is my OPINION that Johnson is one of the better play makers at RB in the draft after looking up the other top RB's, and is going to be good.  No shi t just because he was really good in college doesn't necessarily mean he'll be good in the NFL, but it is my OPINION that he will be.  Do you understand the difference between opinion and fact now?  Were you sick that day of second grade when they taught that or did you just never get past that point in education?  Or will your terribly inflated and misplaced ego continue to think anybody who disagrees with your opinion is disagreeing with fact?  Thanks for the painfully obvious observation, what are you going to tell me next that 2+2=4?  Dude just stop, for your sake, you're embarrassing yourself.

2    0 Reply
Robert K (Anonymous Poster)
3 month(s) 21 day(s) ago - hide

@process server I'm not confusing opinion with fact. Your opinion is that Johnson is one of the best running backs in the draft. It is an unfounded statement, as you have admitted that you haven't extensively scouted the position. If I say "I think that process server (seriously, why that name?) is an intelligent person with lots of interesting things to say," but can't point to a single statement to back that up (and I can't), then my opinion is unfounded. Basic logic. I have not, in any way, confused opinion with fact. I have not distorted definitions based on narcissism (read the definition of best again very slowly), nor have I played the victim when someone accurately points out that I have no basis to reach a conclusion.

You like Johnson? Fine. You think he'll be a good player? No problem. You think he's one of the best playmakers in the draft when you haven't begun to look over the others is an unfounded opinion that would be trashed by any objective observer.

This is all what happened, and once again it took you over a week to finally discover the central point of my arguments. Wow. BTW, who has time to scout every player? I'm guessing you do while you're not reading literature, coming up with your own dismissive retorts, and accepting ribbons for being the "best" student despite performing in the lowest 10% of your class due to lack of effort and intelligence.

Keep petting those soft rabbits, and while you're at it consider tattooing the definition of best on your forearm. It may help.

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process server (Anonymous Poster)
3 month(s) 19 day(s) ago - hide

@Robert K 

Aright, go ahead, stick by your weak argument, since you clearly don't have the balls to admit you're wrong.  Keep on lashing out and taking personal shots, because, you know, that's not how a sore loser acts.  Keep on giving me those warm fuzzy feelings that someone like you doesn't agree with me.  Keep on making me laugh with those aggressively witless remarks, because I can tell you think you're being clever, and that really makes it funny!  Keep on telling yourself whatever you have to tell yourself to help you get through the day.

Keep on keeping on!  You're ignorance is bliss and never ceases to amaze me!  Maybe one day you'll be able to learn from this verbal beating I've given you over the past week, or just keep on living in ignorance, I don't care.

P.S., since Walt has not scouted every player in the draft {every year there are many prospects that go undrafted or are drafted late that he admittedly doesn't know how hasn't looked into}, using that logic that means he also doesn't now what he's talking about and he is "lying" lol.  I just hope it doesn't effect your relationship at all, I think you two make a great couple.

4    0 Reply
Robert K (Anonymous Poster)
3 month(s) 14 day(s) ago - hide

@process server It's amazing how you're not witty enough to come up with your own retorts. I called you out several times on blatantly lifting them from me, yet you continue to do it.

P.S. I didn't say that Walt was qualified to say who the best player in the draft is. The lying remark was directed specifically at you and not to the draft community in general. The number of straw man arguments (look it up) you have trotted out is staggering.

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Mr.B (Anonymous Poster)
3 month(s) 8 day(s) ago - hide
@Robert K So Walt is right and the Browns fan base so look forward to a 1-15 year?
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royale with cheese (Anonymous Poster)
3 month(s) 12 day(s) ago - hide

@ Robert K

I'm sure I can go back and dig up all the times u praise Walt and think his analysis is great, but I obviously don't have as much free time as you.  I'm sure there are times where you bash Walt for hating on your precious Steelers, just like these other "homer" fans do, yet you spew your classless hate at them.  Good job on being a hypocrite and a terrible person!  Although that is definitely not the first time someone has called you a terrible person, and it certainly won't be the last. If he is so under-qualified {according to your flawed logic} then why do you feel the compelling urge to bash people who disagree with him and "like" his analysis?  Keep on contradicting yourself kid, you never cease to amaze me! You really believe you're misguided theories and assumptions are true, its amazing!  I don't think I've ever witnessed an ego of this caliber that wasn't deserved in the slightest.  It's truly a humorous experience!  Keep on bringing it please!  Keep on thinking about me to an unhealthy extent and bring me some more of those "theories about me!  I love it!

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royale with cheese (Anonymous Poster)
3 month(s) 13 day(s) ago - hide

@Robert K 

YES!  Keep it up please!  I love it when you keep on nitpicking and reaching and reaching.  It's a sign of defeat and the farther out you reach the better I feel!  Keep it coming!  Your ridiculous and over-analyzed "points" as you call them {that's so adorable} keep bringing me those warm fuzzy feelings!  Keep on thinking your the first one to use very general and common expressions and that I "plagiarized" you lol, your ego knows no bounds!  Keep on thinking of me and writing all those long posts, I enjoy living rent free inside your head!  and again thanks for the laughs!

0    0 Reply
PDH (Anonymous Poster)
3 month(s) 20 day(s) ago - hide
Draft grades are such BS. Not even coaches can exactly predict how their picks will turn out let alone "writers". I just love how they elaborate on why they give their grades on every team's draft class. Like player A was a reach or player B was a steal. No one knows anything until these guys get on the field. It just bugs me how these writers grade draft picks and determine which pick was a reach and not, like they now it all. I bet they haven't watched a second of tape on over half of those prospects and yet they have their opinions about every player. What makes you think you know about a prospect more than the actual team that drafts that prospect? You're telling me, you've put in more time in evaluating a prospect than any of these teams' coaches and GMs? Every team has its own draft board that is created based on their own system and schemes. Your opinion means nothing about who is a reach and who is not. Those opinions are made based on your own draft board which means nothing. Grading draft picks is flat out stupid and pointless.
2    3 Reply
Robert K (Anonymous Poster)
3 month(s) 14 day(s) ago - hide
@PDH So which of the teams that Walt blasted do you root for?
4    2 Reply
royale with cheese (Anonymous Poster)
3 month(s) 19 day(s) ago - hide

If I say "I think that process server (seriously, why that name?) is an intelligent person with lots of interesting things to say," but can't point to a single statement to back that up (and I can't), then my opinion is unfounded

Nice try, but ultimately a swing and a miss.  I have told you repeatedly {but you have chosen to ignore it because it is inconvenient for your argument, or maybe you're the one that has Leonard Shelby syndrome and you need to start getting tattoos of what you've already said to remind yourself } that I have scouted and extensively looked at many other RB's and play makers to come to my decision.  Terrible analogy that's not the same thing as ranking players for the draft and thus doesn't really apply to what we were talking about and only satisfies you're innate need to criticize and angrily bash people.  But thanks for the complement!  Such a charming guy.

2    1 Reply
Robert K (Anonymous Poster)
3 month(s) 14 day(s) ago - hide

@royale with cheese 

Your quote above: "I have told you repeatedly {but you have chosen to ignore it because it is inconvenient for your argument, or maybe you're the one that has Leonard Shelby syndrome and you need to start getting tattoos of what you've already said to remind yourself } that I have scouted and extensively looked at many other RB's and play makers to come to my decision."

Two prior quotes:

"And I did know about Duke Johnson, and as a Browns fan I did some research on who are some of the better play makers in the draft (since the Browns really need one) and Duke Johnson I discovered was one of them."

"When I saw Duke Johnson I saw special speed and play making ability, not to mention his impressive stats (most rushing yards in Miami-FL history, which has a pretty rich history of running backs), and that told me all I needed to know and convinced me that he was one of the best play makers at RB in the draft."

In making a false argument, you changed "some" to "many." Also, you flat out admitted that all you needed to make a judgment on Johnson was HIS OWN TAPE, yet later claim to have scouted him against other playmakers when making your decision. You're incapable of keeping track of your own lies.

Here's what is happening. You were offended when I accurately pointed out that the "process server" act was really cheesy. You rejected my apology and became even more irate when I started with the Leonard Shelby references. I have repeatedly mocked your lack of intellect and wit, but do you blame me? You have contradicted yourself many times, trotted out an astonishing array of fallacious arguments, and have lifted some of my quotes nearly word for word (Leonard Shelby, not wanting me to agree with you, etc...) instead of coming up with your own clever dismissals. Initially I thought it was an act, but I no longer do. I think you're functionally incapable not only of following my arguments, but your own.

I'll offer you another apology because it is obvious that I have really hurt your feelings, but I know that it won't be accepted. Every new post from you stoops to new lows as far as logical inconsistency and plagiarism, and I don't expect the next to be any different. You can accept the apology and move on, or you can keep trying to dig yourself out of this hole. Please keep in mind that what I pasted above was not some distorted interpretation of what you said. Those are YOUR OWN WORDS. You only needed to see Johnson's tape to make your decision, but you scouted him against many backs before making your decision. Beautiful.

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DreBeast (Anonymous Poster)
3 month(s) 16 day(s) ago - hide
Brandon Scherff is going to start at right tackle for the Skins, not guard. 
1    0 Reply
royale with cheese (Anonymous Poster)
3 month(s) 19 day(s) ago - hide

@process server 

Again, I've said multiple times that I have looked at and scouted other top running backs and play makers in the draft {no not everyone, but a lot of them, and Walt hasn't scouted everyone either } but you can stick to your straw man fallacy and pretend like I haven't looked up players or running backs at all so you can further placate your ego to feel better about yourself, it's more convenient for you and your argument.

since you keep resorting to bringing up something irrelevant to the argument like my bs anonymous name, like a tempter tantrum-throwing sore loser often does, I'll change it for ya.  It's a reference to my favorite movie.

1    0 Reply
Nick Perry (Anonymous Poster)
3 month(s) 20 day(s) ago - hide
Why would you be surprised the Packers took a CB under 6 feet tall? Take a look at the Corners the Packers have fielded the last several years, they're ALL under 6 feet tall. Rollins was a great pick for the Packers, Steelers fans are going to be screaming "Why didn't we take this guy instead of a midget!" 
2    0 Reply
dude15 (Anonymous Poster)
3 month(s) 20 day(s) ago - hide
@Uugh Dallas  I think you mean the next two years uless they sign a star FA qb
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Bearman (Anonymous Poster)
3 month(s) 22 day(s) ago - hide
The Bills get a B-....  Really?  No 1st round pick.  Nick O'Leary a steal?  What am I missing?  Buffalo fans should start thinking about the 2016 draft.
1    0 Reply
B- is generous (Anonymous Poster)
3 month(s) 20 day(s) ago - hide

@Bearman 

That's actually a generous grade; most analysts gave them a C or so.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2459050-2015-nfl-draft-every-teams-best-value-selection

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Dallas fan (Anonymous Poster)
3 month(s) 20 day(s) ago - hide
@Uugh Dallas  They didnt draft Collins. They pick him up in UDFA. Gotta grade fairly.
1    0 Reply
Uugh Dallas (Anonymous Poster)
3 month(s) 21 day(s) ago - hide
The winner of the draft is Dallas....by a mile. They drafted three 1st round draft picks this year including the best edge rusher in Gregory and arguably the best offensive linemen in Collins. I am not a happy guy giants guy. Dallas has set themselves up for a Super Bowl run for the next four years. Uuugggghhhh. 
1    1 Reply
IssacH (Anonymous Poster)
3 month(s) 23 day(s) ago - hide
Walt, your man-crush on Ozzie Newsome is just ridiculous. There's no reason to praise every single thing he does.
6    1 Reply
Robert K (Anonymous Poster)
3 month(s) 21 day(s) ago - hide

@IssacH He doesn't.

Back to you.

1    3 Reply
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